Hello and welcome back to Burning Questions! Every week we look at intriguing questions from the Marvel Snap community. This week we're talking about Thanos (again), alternate versions of characters, deck list tools, meta shifts in high infinite, and bots!
1) Which version of Thanos is better?
Last week I discussed the tech Thanos deck and why it's a balance concern. Since then, there has been a lot of discussion about whether it's even the best way to play Thanos. After all, the Ongoing version had better stats and is aggressive, while the teched out list is more reactive.
O'Thanos
Technos IP
Well, a few things have happened since then. The play rate of the Ongoing list increased and the stats of the decks began to converge. Even if this shift hasn't occurred, I would have argued that the tech version was the more problematic from a balance perspective because of the way it invalidates so many other decks via tech.
Statistics are useless without context. Sure Ongoing Thanos was performing better than the tech version for a while, but it's important to understand why.
The Ongoing list was being played at far lower rates initially. This meant the sample was smaller and it was a newer list players hadn't grown as accustomed to yet. Additionally, it's important to consider how this meta game had developed. The Ongoing list had space to maneuver precisely because of the tech Thanos list. The Ongoing list is pretty good into the tech list and can handle some of the things that the tech Thanos list struggles with (particularly affliction with Luke Cage or Negative with Mobius). The meta still revolved around the tech list and decks were designed to compete with that deck.
It's the same thing that happens in a Hela meta. Hela isn't always, or even usually, the best deck statistically when we're in a “Hela meta,” but Hela pushes mid-range decks out as decks start to be built around the top end power output required to beat Hela. It's very similar when Bounce is the meta tyrant and warping the meta around it. Right now, the tech Thanos list is warping the meta, even as players are developing ways to combat it with destructive Surfer, Scream, Affliction, and clog decks, as well as tech packages specifically targeting the deck’s weak points. This situation will continue until Thanos gets nerfed and hopefully that will be soon.
Despite everything I've said above, I actually think a pretty gentle nerf would allow the meta to open up. The issue with Thanos as currently constructed is that because it can put out uncounterable power so effortlessly, in the form of Strange Supreme behind Cosmo, indestructible Thanos, and a 9-power Mockingbird, that it is able to fill the rest of its slots with tech in a problematic way. The last buff Thanos received has been an underrated part of why the deck is so powerful at the moment. The following would possibly be enough:
- Revert Thanos to 6/10 or rework the Soul Stone
- Revert Space Stone to 1/1
2) Are there any alternate versions of characters you'd like to see added to the game?
We're getting new First Steps versions of the Fantastic Four and we've had multiple cards of the same character like Norman Osborne as both the Green Goblin and Iron Patriot. There aren't any alternate versions I'd particularly like to see as totally new cards, but one clever way to give us some cool variants would be to take advantage of a weird quirk of comic books. Making comics in the Silver Age often included just throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks. As a result, there are some obscure characters that never really took off and had their names recycled!
Before Gorr the God Butcher appeared in 2013 there was Gorr the golden gorilla!
Stan Lee first used the name ‘The Punisher’ for a robot enforcer belonging to Galactus!
A previous Bullseye appeared in a single Nick Fury issue and was hired by Hydra to kill Fury before meeting a fateful end.
I know they're separate characters, but it would be a fun little way to nod to the past and bring a few characters to the game that are definitely not going to get cards of their own!
3) Is there a way to convert images into deck codes?
There is! I've been using this tool whenever I come across a deck list without a code, either on social media or in a video. This will convert any image into a deck code. I can then import it into my Snap Fan account or directly into the game.
https://deckcodes.chat/
Now, let's hop over to the ask-the-team channel on the official Marvel Snap discord for a couple of developer answers.
4) Q: Previously you mentioned that you wanted to take a power from MODOK as 8 felt too high, but since that it feels like Discard has completely fallen off (both versions actually) especially in mid/high infinite. First of all does your data also show the same trend, and if yes would you give the power back to MODOK or buff another part of the discard package?
A: We’ve seen Discard’s play rate drop but its winrate has remained competitive, so that nerf (in addition to other metagame shifts) had exactly the desired effect. I would suggest the change you’re perceiving is a sampling bias from the metagaming players at the top constantly have to engage in to remain competitive.
-Glenn
Author's note:
Well, this is a pretty interesting response from Glenn. I'm talking about this line: “the metagaming players at the top constantly have to engage in to remain competitive.” Deck selection at that level functions differently than at lower levels. It's a salient observation by Glenn that players at top 30% infinite (which is approximately 6000 players at the moment) have to continually evaluate their metagame and adapt in order to maintain a consistent win rate. Players will improve versus cards the more practice they get against them.
So it's not just ‘boredom’ causing meta churn at the top, it's actually a necessity for those players in a way that it isn't lower down. Additionally, players in the top 10% of infinite (approximately 1800 as of writing) tend to be at MMR levels where they face the same players repeatedly, meaning there is more incentive to be unpredictable. This probably explains why some perfectly good cards, packages, or decks seemingly get abandoned after a while. The players at the top influence the players lower down despite playing in different environments.
Decks with predictable play patterns like Discard and Destroy are especially going to lose potency at the top as players get more reps against them. However, those decks are probably seeing too little play at middle MMR ranks because of the downward influence of high MMR players. Taking an older deck or strategy for a spin might be an excellent strategy for players outside the top echelon.
5) Q: Ever since I hit level 85, I’ve faced a mix of bots who give me cubes and bots that absolutely and grossly rob me of 4 and 8 cubes.
I’ve been playing since global launch. I remember the “cheater bots” from back in the day that people would sometimes encounter. But I feel like for the last like 12-18 months that hasn’t really been a thing.
Suddenly, out of nowhere, I’m now facing these monstrous bots that do the exact thing they need to win. And it’s ruthless.
I get that there’s the idea that you don’t want bots to be boring, non-competitive games. But isn’t this too far in the other direction? Either way, an easy bot or a hard bot is still a bot. The only thing worse than beating an easy bot is losing to a hyper aggressive one.
What was the consideration here and are you listening to feedback about this experience?
A: We have not made any changes to bots in a while. Nothing intentional this season, for sure.
We’re hearing the feedback that some are feeling differently so we’ll double check the data but on initial look everything is as it should be.
Author's note:
I believe that Second Dinner hasn't made a change to their bots, but the number of reports I've received about bots feeling different are too numerous to ignore. My personal theory is that there is something unintended going on with their matchmaking system and how/when it decides to spawn bots and has been for a few months. I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I can find out more.
That's it for this week! Come find me on social media for more comic and Snap talk!